Affordable Housing

[tristanbgilb]

And who, living in a trailer, could afford a $100,000 dollar trailer pad?

They pay enough in rent to almost cover it on a 30 year fixed term loan. Lets say they pay $600 month rent for the lot. $100k at 3% is less money per month and someday there is no payment at all owned free and clear... and the owner is empowered and proud of their home.

[Fun CH]

A housing crisis to me looks like the trailer park in Twisp more than all this "affordable housing" we supposedly need here. This is low cost housing at the trailer park. Is this what we want more of? I think this california trust in charge of the trailer park should be bought out by a housing association and the lots in the park owned by the tenants. I went to the taxsifter and saw that this park was purchased for 1.7 million in 2017. By inflation standards lets just say its worth 4 million now. I looked over the map and counted roughly 40 trailers. that would make each lot roughly worth $100k with all the amenities already installed. I would rather empower tenants to become land owners than create more cheap housing to make outside interests rich while creating this blight our valley.

have you seen the affordable housing project in Twisp and Mazama? Those are nice places sold to working families.

And who, living in a trailer, could afford a $100,000 dollar trailer pad?

When we say affordable housing, no one is talking about a homeless shelter.

But I do agree with you about that hard work ethic here. Everyone has to do their share of carrying the water for the community.

Those that are well employed elseware, making wages that are next to impossible to make here for the average person, and own a vacant 2nd home can certainly afford an additional 1 to 2% tax on the value of their property.

Just asking them to carry some of that water for the benefit the community.

Glad you joined the discussion.

[pasayten]

Motel converted to housing...

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/l ... -employees

[PAL]

I am starting to read the book, "Billionaire Wilderness" about what has happened to Jackson Hole as an example. It is very in depth, starting with interviews with the ultra wealthy. This guy researched this for 5 yrs. It is quite revealing.
The reason we want affordable housing is that there are people that are living in tents, motorhomes, here and they are the workers breaking their backs for our tourist economy. That is the course the Methow has taken, so that our tourist economy doesn't go away, housing needs to be built.
I know there is a shortage as I have been looking for housing for a friend, and there is next to nothing, that is affordable anyway. A 3 bedroom house on the other BB was asking $2100/month. I'm betting it is quite a nice house and at that price they must figure people will not wreck it. Of course, 3 or more sharing it would make it more affordable.
Just my speculation.

[tristanbgilb]

A housing crisis to me looks like the trailer park in Twisp more than all this "affordable housing" we supposedly need here. This is low cost housing at the trailer park. Is this what we want more of? I think this california trust in charge of the trailer park should be bought out by a housing association and the lots in the park owned by the tenants. I went to the taxsifter and saw that this park was purchased for 1.7 million in 2017. By inflation standards lets just say its worth 4 million now. I looked over the map and counted roughly 40 trailers. that would make each lot roughly worth $100k with all the amenities already installed. I would rather empower tenants to become land owners than create more cheap housing to make outside interests rich while creating this blight our valley.

[pasayten]

Was talking about this issue with a friend who lived in Aspen back in the day when they addressed similar problems...

"Difficult issue - most workers in Aspen lived down-valley, at least out of town"

"First Low cost housing units filled up with ski bums, after that one had to prove employment with a Chamber of Commerce member business in town."

That is a novel concept...

[tristanbgilb]

I could build myself an affordable dwelling in Twisp today with the resources I have today with land to play with. there are places in the cities for people that don't want to carry their weight in society. the methow valley requires high standards integrity and hard work to be accepted. if you want a free place to stay there are shelters in other places. here i am looking for a safe and comfortable place to raise a family. i moved here to get away from this druggy street trash that has taken over our cities. why would we want to invite it here.?

[Fun CH]

I don't see the housing crisis you are referring to people. I am middle class with two methow valley dwellings and could almost afford to build another.

Could you afford to move here now given the resources you had when you moved here, what was it 20-30 years ago?

I couldn't.

We built our home here (1984-85) after living for 7 years in a 12×48 foot used trailer. Later we moved that trailer to a $50 a month rental lot located in an apple orchard where we lived amongst a variety of chemical sprays. (the owner of that Orchard developed a nasty cancer).

When we moved to the Valley it was affordable to be able to escape that life.

Twenty five years ago you could buy a 2 acre lot in Pine Forest for $10,000.

The last two 2 acres lots in that development sold for around $250,000.

If you want to welcome people willing to do hard physical work in the Methow and to replace those of us who are retiring, housing needs to be affordable and available.

Neither of those is occuring now.

A vacant home tax could help fund homes for those who are working hard, saving but still could never afford to live here given the current situation.

[tristanbgilb]

I don't see the housing crisis you are referring to people. I am middle class with two methow valley dwellings and could almost afford to build another. "Money talks and bull*** walks"; This guy kept telling me this when he picked me up broke and destitute hitchhiking i-5 to olympia from a grateful dead show. get off your asses and get some land and build a house. the government is not going to save you and why do i owe you a place to live?

[Fun CH]

Wouldn't it be great if they would post and just say they will not accept anymore.

they did that once asking that we not post anything political, and people kept posting political stuff anyway.

I got caught up in a political discussion when a part-time Valley resident from Bellevue (I think) with a second home in Twisp posted about reviving the already defeated formation of a Methow Recreational District.

[That conversation, where I pushed back hard against that new tax and the ability to take our property for recreational use, ultimately led to me getting banned from that forum.]

That guy had previously written a letter to the editor to MVN suggesting that a recreational District would help increase property values. That happened anyway and has helped exacerbate our affordable housing crisis.

Wonder how that Bellevue guy would feel about increasing the taxes on his second home in Twisp in order to fund affordable housing?

The increase in property values is a double-edged sword.

On the positive side those increased property values means that our long time working class valley residents will be able to sell their homes when they can longer take care of themselves and be able to afford a decent assisted living or nursing care facility.

[PAL]

Here are the rules from Methownet BB

As host of the bulletin board the Methownet.com staff has the right to remove posts. Here are some of the reasons we might do so:
1) posts with language or images of a slanderous, libelous, mean or rude nature,
2) spammers,
3) bumping your post to the top, or
4) posts which are commercial in nature.
5) Washington State law requires that private sales and transfers of firearms (those that do not involve a federally licensed dealer as a party to the transaction) be completed through a licensed dealer.

Users may be banned for:
1) trolling,
2) mean behavior, or
3) other stuff.

Any personal opinion or open discussion posts are additionally subject to the following rules:
1) Posters must include their real names on every opinion post
2) Offsite links are not allowed
3) You must share your opinion in your own words and keep it civil.

So there taking the housing post is arbitrary and up to whoever is doing the monitoring. And at this point it's a back and forth between them and the poster of the post!

Help! I didn't mean to post twice. How do I delete the post. (Update: I fixed it... pasayten)

[PAL]

They obviously don't want it on, thinking it will do more harm than good, I guess. Oh and it could become contentious.
Wouldn't it be great if they would post and just say they will not accept anymore. Once again, a private company and they can do what they want.

[pasayten]

What the heck???? Poof... The thread on methownet is GONE again???

[pasayten]

Note... I will keep adding new methownet replies to this thread...

TRanch25 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:47 pm

I hope you don't catch any flak as this is an important issue in our valley. I think conversations like this get deleted when it becomes belligerent, rude and filled with false information.
That said, I am hopeful for some good constructive dialogue! I think Steve, your idea is going in the right direction. The possibility of more taxes makes me nervous but with the right perimeters in place, might be a good solution.
Money talks as they say.
Bethann McKittrick

[PAL]

It's baaack again!

[PAL]

It's gone again!
Thanks Chris for this link. Will look forward to reading it.
We get the noise too sometimes, when the city dwellers come to Sky Ranch. The sound travels across the river surprisingly well.
Yes, love the sound of the flapping of bird wings.

[Fun CH]

Before Andy mentioned it, I had not considered a vacant home tax. So I looked it up.

The Bloomberg article below states that tax doesnt help but that article looks at the issue thinking that taxing vacant homes an additional 1% of property value will force rentals or sales of those vacant homes.

Instead just make sure that additional tax Revenue goes toward building affordable housing and not added to the general fund.

I will say this after having lived in Pine Forest for almost 15 years, Vacant home owners make good neighbors. I did notice that when the city folk were here, they talk very loudly as if they need to speak over the city noises that is their normal existence.

It takes them awhile I guess to realize that you can hear a gentle breeze in the Aspen trees and the flapping of bird wings around here if you seek the calm quiet.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... -are-taxed

"Taxing Rich Peoples' Empty Homes Isn't Helping the Housing Crisis"

"Economists say levies on vacant homes are largely political theatre, and policymakers need to tackle other factors such as supply-demand imbalance."

[pasayten]

McDonkey » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:35 pm

Not sure why this went away, but I'm glad it's back.
There are a lot of ideas floating around. Your idea is one that's been mentioned in the various housing study groups/ad hoc think tanks working on the issue, but it has some structural issues related to the state constitution that would make it problematic. Taxing unoccupied homes has however been implemented in other communities with similar issues.
Check out the Methow housing perseverance page on Facebook for other like minded folks and ideas
Thanks for the constructive input.
Andy McConkey

[pasayten]

Reapward » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:50 pm

And Dave Schultz's property was for sale by Do It. The old orchard but zoning?
Pearl Cherrington

[pasayten]

SherpaDave » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:00 pm

The old mill land just south and across the bridge from Hanks in Twisp looks like great high density property. And it is walking distance to almost everything. There is even some utilities already in place. Drive by and you see fire hydrants and such out in the flats. Some nice apartment buildings like Cedarwood Apts in Winthrop and small lot, reasonable size homes would make a nice residential area. Would need some kind of HOA or such restricting overnight rentals or part-time residency. I don't know how this is achieved. Just a thought.

[pasayten]

Reapward » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:52 pm

Hank is asking for annexation to the town of Twisp to be able to build affordable housing according to MVN. Hopefully the town will do that for him. It is many entities working together. It was mentioned the Housing Trust is indeed looking into building rentals now.
But finding the ground may be difficult. There is some vacant land within the towns, but do people want to sell it?
Pearl Cherrington

[pasayten]

RACKEM » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:48 pm

IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO (LIFE) LETS DEAL WITH IT MOVE TO A MORE AFFORDABLE ENVIRONMENT
JUST DONT BELIEVE IN THE (SKYS IS FALLING) MENTALLY just sayin
LOOKIN FWD TO ANOTHER WEEK IN GODS COUNTRY

[pasayten]

mr_coffee » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:18 pm

The problem here is not really a matter of pounding nails.

The challenge is a bunch of things have to happen together at different levels of government for the right reasons. Given the zoning rules in place (zoning rules I support generally) on most land in the valley it isn't realistic to build affordable housing in most locations. Given the recent water wars on subdivided properties it is even less realistic. If we need a hammer we need that hammer to hammer out solutions to those problems.

We need state legislators to jump in to make sure water would be available for the new homes.

We need the county to be open to municipalities annexing land so we can change the zoning to a higher density.

We need the municipalities (Twisp and Winthrop) to annex new land and open it up to fairly high-density and low cost development. A lot of that will have to be multifamily homes.

I'm not optimistic that we'll ever get the help from the county or the state to make that happen.
David Bonn

[pasayten]

alfrandell » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:55 pm

the housing trust is mentioned along with the cove and room one whenever this question comes up. they are used to show that we are doing all that we can.
But, we are not doing all that we can.

please note that i am not after a free house.
i am trying to house people.
i actually turn screws and cut wood.
not just type.

if housing is not provided soon, this valley will become more like jackson hole.
in short, it will suck.
Alf Randell

[pasayten]

ed » Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:08 pm

A progressive property tax based on the value of the property is probably the way to go. Then you don't need to define what a "1st" or "2nd" home is. If you own property you already pay a property tax. If it's worth over X, you pay more per $1000 over X.
Ed Menendez - Twisp