Pasayten's Methow Valley Bulletin Board

Here is the Butler letter to the MVN last time this MPD proposition came to the ballot and was defeated 78% to 22%. The letter was sent several years after his companies ( Corporation) Forest Service special use permit was placed on a 5 year probation for illegally cutting down White Bark Pine trees, a federally listed species.

"Relying on hope
Dear Editor:

I voted for the formation of the Methow Valley Recreation District for several reasons, one being that I liked that it was well-intentioned but imperfect. That reminds me of many of us living here. That could even be a motto for the Methow.

The brouhaha over the potential creation of the district brought up some interesting issues, many worth discussing. It also revealed that fear and loathing is alive and well in the valley, which is understandable when talking about increasing property taxes, creating more bureaucracy, or the possibility that your land could be seized for a frisbee golf course.

Maybe the county’s 2012 recreation plan will result in improving and building recreational fields and facilities in the valley. I look forward to seeing that plan kick into action. In lieu of any long-term planning, we can always rely on hope (aside from the good folks of the Winthrop Kiwanis). Like, I hope the pool is open this summer. Or, I hope someday the kids will have a decent soccer field to play on. I guess when they complain about running around on a field of dirt, weeds and rocks, I can remind them that they can always go fishing.
Paul Butler, Mazama"


Don't worry Paul, the pool stayed open for around 9 years after you wrote that letter. Still going. And yes the kids can go swimming, play soccer,football baseball, wind surf, float the river, kayak the river, ski the loop, ski the Methow trails, ski the backcountry, Snowshoe, paddleboard the lakes, paddleboard the rivers, Rock climb, hike, scramble the Mountain ridges, go for a run, go for a walk, ride their Mountain bikes, ride snow bikes, ride road bikes, snowmobile, ride a dirt bike, ice skate, play hockey etc, etc, and yes they can even go fishing.

I searched my posts and this is the only other reference to FOP board member Bo Thrasher.

Bo, can you identify anything here that would justify you harassing me?

I believe I made an accurate assessment concerning public Trust.

Fun CH wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:52 pm
Quote:

"to provide on going funding to develop, construct, operate, and maintain the Methow Aquatics Center and related existing and future facilities. "

Interesting. Again no transparency to the voter as to what those future facilities will be.

Any recreational building like climbing wall, bowling alley or roller skating rink could be related and constructed and maintained with taxpayer money.

We already know they want to build a house for the manager and dormitory rooms which will be for visiting tourists and not connected in any way with affordable housing like they are trying to sell it.

Also consider that two of the FOP board members, Bo Thrasher and Blu Bradley, have a vested interest in commercial mountain guiding in the North Cascades; ie North Cascade Mountain Guides and North Cascade Heli skiing. Both companies having in the past been found to be in non-compliance with their Forest Service special use permits.

The NCH permit was placed on a 5-year probation for illegally cutting down white bark pine trees in order to create unauthorized helicopter landing sites. At the time in 2012, White Bark pine trees were federally listed as a sensitive species and now listed as threatened. They had no problem destroying those trees to support their self interest gains while trying to place all the blame on their helicopter pilot. They also paid a slap on the wrist $6,000 restoration fee.

The 5 year Permit probation was incurred only after NCH did not come clean to the FS as to the extent of their illegal cutting as more undisclosed illegal cutting sites were discovered by concerned citizens and reported to the forest service.

NCMG, which shares a common owner with NCH, Paul Butler (married to Bo), was caught guiding out of their permitted area and received a forest service warning letter. Blu (publically caught spreading misinformation on recreational districts ) is married to NCMG part owner Larry Goldie.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mega 2 pool/ Spa and related facilities are constructed in Winthrop or Mazama even though this is being billed as replacing the Wagner pool.

Remember it was Paul Butler who supported the creation of a MPD the last time this measure was placed on the ballot and defeated 78% to 22%. This obviously beyond wealthy fellow wrote a patronizing letter to the MVN editor wanting local taxpayers to build a soccer field for his daughter.

Why would anyone trust these folks with virtually unlimited tax dollars and non voter controlled power? Tax dollars are needed for critical services here in our valley, now and in the future, not luxury playgrounds.

(Edit for spelling)

PAL wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:56 pm "Mr Oulman implies that we are asking the public to foot the bill of building the pool". Implies? They do want the pubic to foot the bill via property owners and rent increases.
Blue Bradley did not sign either.
The property owners that have been here a long time have payed and payed. I believe in paying taxes, but enough is enough. And with the Annexation passed for Twisp, that's 61cents/$1000 plus what the MPD or Aquatics Taxing District would be asking for, with possible, nay, probable increases.
The cost of the center could be much higher than what is being quoted.
Chris the $180,000 was from the Twisp Town budget and that was most probably for an outdoor pool design, along with the $7 million for a pool.
Now, I have tried to find that in the budget and may have been removed. Takes time to go through the Town Council meeting minutes.

thanks for the correction on where that architect fee came from. So if an outdoor pool is $180,000 to design , the Mega spa must be a whole lot more. I'll ask Justin Porter.


Hey Justin, what is the architect, who I assume is the Johnson who signed your misinformation letter, going to be paid to design the mega spa?

And what do you mean that you're not asking to public to foot the bill for the pool because you definitely are. You are asking us to support forming the most voter restrictive type recreation District and not even allowing us to vote for MPD board positions.

What will you all be paying yourselves to sit on that board? So many unanswered questions.

In that letter you all stated that you were going to be accountable and transparent to the voters even going so far as to say you were going to be beholden to us.

Perhaps you could start fulfilling your promise of transparency and accountability NOW and start answering voter concerns?

And perhaps you could apologize to Steve as he felt you were attacking him in that letter. Is that what you mean by beholden to the voters? Attack and harass and ban from your facebook the voters who are asking questions?

"Mr Oulman implies that we are asking the public to foot the bill of building the pool". Implies? They do want the pubic to foot the bill via property owners and rent increases.
Blue Bradley did not sign either.
The property owners that have been here a long time have payed and payed. I believe in paying taxes, but enough is enough. And with the Annexation passed for Twisp, that's 61cents/$1000 plus what the MPD or Aquatics Taxing District would be asking for, with possible, nay, probable increases.
The cost of the center could be much higher than what is being quoted.
Chris the $180,000 was from the Twisp Town budget and that was most probably for an outdoor pool design, along with the $7 million for a pool.
Now, I have tried to find that in the budget and may have been removed. Takes time to go through the Town Council meeting minutes.

SOulman wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:37 pm I was on the receiving end of an ad hominen rebuttal by Friends of the Pool members in this week's MVNews letters section.

To which I say "whatever."

There was no rebuttal to the main factual points I raised in my August 2 letter to the editor -- (1) No other comparable rural community has invested in an indoor aquatic center, (2) the cost (using figures from the pool consultant) would be at least $25 million to build and $1 million to maintain.

I support replacing the aging Wagner pool. I don't support an indoor aquatic center. It is possible to hold these two seemingly opposing views at the same time. I suspect that I am not the only one.

Quoted below is part of that letter by the FOP board members and the architect that stands to make at the very least $180,000 by their estimates.

Unfortunately that letter once again is full of misinformation. A Metropolitan Park District once formed does not require any further voter input or taxpayer accountability to carry out their function.

It appears they are telling voters what they want to hear, but not the reality of the situation.

Of course they are asking the public to foot the bill for building the mega spa. That's the whole point of forming a Metropolitan Park District, the most restrictive form of a park district as far as voter input, accountability and high levy rate go.

Voters aren't even being offered the option of electing the Metropolitan Park District Commissioners board which is basically standard practice to be carried out at the same time the ballot measure is voted on. The FOP are not offering accountability and transparency now so why would anyone believe that would change once they have control of an enormous amount of taxpayer dollars?

The FOP put out a lot of Confusion by describing three completely different types of governance structures. The governance structure that counts is on the petition and the ballot which guarantees those 5 positions on that MPD board, drawing large salaries and pensions at taxpayer expense, will be FOP board members. So no elected officials will serve on that board as was offered as truth to the public.

Shame that they want that money so bad for their dream Mega Spa that they are willing to personally harass me, and pass misinformation along to the public.

Sad to see the previous lady's letter who wants a pool in Twisp for her son, who will now have to drive to Winthrop because that's where the Mega Spa will be built. She said she can't drive her son anywhere to swim.

Winthrop is where the most tourist infrastructure is located and a mega Spa will fit in nicely right next to the ice rink. Don't believe me? They haven't offered any guarantees that anything will be built in Twisp and they leave open the option of Winthrop as a location. The majority of the FOP board don't live in Twisp. They live in Mazama and Winthrop.

It is kind of amazing that they had to refute your points with misinformation Steve, to try and sell a boondoggle mega spa. A promise of further public hearings will not change a thing. They want that indoor Mega Spa. Their minds are made up.

As far as growing together in health, the FOP makes that hard to do by placing the burden on the poor to build their dream mega spa. The FOP's dream of a pleasure swim means some local seniors will spend out the last months or years of their life in a nursing home for the poor. Shame on the FOP for using these tactics.

Conspicuously missing from that letter is FOP board member Agnes Almquist's signature. I suspect her honesty is being overruled.

Letter to editor from FOP

"While we advocate for a year-round option, voting yes won’t guarantee it. Mr Oulman implies that we are asking the public to foot the bill of building the pool. Not so! Voting yes on the aquatics district will create the public entity necessary to carry this important work forward. The district will be beholden to the taxpayers, and will conduct business with transparency and accountability. The district will hold public hearings, conduct more studies, and gather more information to make final decisions regarding what the future Methow Aquatics Center will be.

If you believe in a vibrant valley that invests in their own well-being, then vote yes to approve the Methow Aquatics District and let’s grow in health together.

Jessica Kuzma, Sarah Schrock, Ken Malloch, Alisa Malloch, Miles Milken, Kellie Zahn, Ray Johnston, Justin Porter"

I was on the receiving end of an ad hominen rebuttal by Friends of the Pool members in this week's MVNews letters section.

To which I say "whatever."

There was no rebuttal to the main factual points I raised in my August 2 letter to the editor -- (1) No other comparable rural community has invested in an indoor aquatic center, (2) the cost (using figures from the pool consultant) would be at least $25 million to build and $1 million to maintain.

I support replacing the aging Wagner pool. I don't support an indoor aquatic center. It is possible to hold these two seemingly opposing views at the same time. I suspect that I am not the only one.

Here is what happened as I described to a friend an email last night.

"So today Bo Thrasher approached me at the Mazama store. She said, "you got something to say to my face" Then she said I'm Bo Thrasher to which I responded "I know" .

I started walking away when she said, " I heard you've been writing unkind things about me".

I responded "it's politics", "like you all haven't been writing unkind things like we're doing it for the"colored" remark.

She said now walking away also "Im not writing anything".

We both kept walking separate directions. I added, "oh I forgot, I'm supposed to stay out of Mazama."

She replied "that's my husband not me". *

I would add her parting words were something like "I guess you're going to write about this too".

"Yes I am". End quoted email

Could this be the post from another thread that people are telling her is "unkind" and lead to this angry confrontation.?

SOulman wrote: Sat Aug 05, 2023 4:20 pm That has not yet been my experience.

A comment saying "No on Proposition 1" is visible on my feed as of 4:15 p.m. 08.05.

It is important to not criticize individuals and to be as factual as possible.

Everyone needs this to be a civil discussion regardless of differences of opinion.

The facts point to poor behavior on the part of the individuals involved in trying to gain enormous power and access to tax payer money without voter input.

Two of the families who have spouses serving on the FOP board were already given the public Trust. One family owned company violated that public trust by breaking the law and damaging the environment. Both didn't seem to care that contractual rules granted to use public land applied to them.These are the facts.

Don't you think its important for the voters to know the character of the people who desire this unchecked power? Or should voters just blindly trust people because on the surface, that Mega Spa sounds really nice to them. Oh and look at the children in this smoke screen video aren't they having fun. Look at them don't ask questions.

Okanogan County already has a Recreation Commision where voters decide who controls their tax money by holding elected officials accountable for their actions. That accountability doesn't exist in this proposal to establish a Metropolitan Park District, which is the nature of that municipality. More facts." End thread quote

Could be one more post that I'll look for where facts seem to upset people.

Bo or any other FOP board member, please join the conversation here. We have a lot of concerns that aren't being addressed.

*[ that is in reference to the fact Bo's husband Paul Butler once confronted me at The Twisp Community Center and told me four times to "stay out of Mazama" and added one time "we don't not like narcs". Because I perceived that as a threat I filed a police report in Twisp and discussed this incident with Forest Service law enforcement officer Dave Graves.

Previous to that I had participated in turning his Corporation, North Cascade heli ski, into the Forest Service for what turned out to be a violation of the law and FS special use permits.]