Affordable Housing

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tristanbgilb
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by tristanbgilb »

$198,5000 .5 Acres
419 Burgar St, Twisp, WA 98856

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TWISP: Large half acre lot in the sought after Burgar Street Neighborhood. Water, power and sewer installed. Irrigation well for lower water bills. 30 X 36, 1000 sq. ft. shop. Two entrances.
I can get $100k if I could find a business partner, we could divide the lot in two. I doubt this lot will last through tomorrow. Any takers? Let me know mucho pronto like right now.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by tristanbgilb »

Listed by:
Carol K. Johnson

Mountain to River Realty LLC

Source: NWMLS,
MLS#: 1871420

twisphouse.jpg
$335,000 3 bd 1 ba 852 sqft
1306 Riverside Ave, Twisp, WA 98856


1950's Twisp charmer! Cozy 2+ bedroom with 1 bath. Open living area and kitchen with stainless steel appliances and tile back splash. Easy care vinyl double pane windows. Full bath has Corian counter top with tiled shower and tub. New electrical panel. Updated plumbing. A/C unit installed. Electric wall heaters. Fully fenced yard with room to add a garden space. Small attached storage shed with duel access. Enjoy the walkable lifestyle that Twisp offers.


This just came up for sale. I bet someone puts an offer on it before the weekend is up.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by tristanbgilb »

I called the realtor about the johnson st lot and he told me there is a lot of interest in it and he didn't seem interested in entertaining a low ball offer. he was more interested in multifamily dwellings than anything. i am thinking twisp doesn't have a water shortage anymore. when i traded that sky ranch log cabin for this house in town there was a building moratorium in twisp due to water right issues is what i think. so i am pretty much out of getting more ground in the methow valley unless this is a bubble followed by a crash. I have an option to build an accessory dwelling in town or upgrading the Twisp River Cabin. I am thinking the cabin needs upgrades more than anything.
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thinking of renovating it from a cabin to something a family could live in. I want my son to raise his family here if he wants. My daughter has been promised the house in Town. I want my grandchildren to have the best neighborhood in the US as I hope to be providing my children. This leaves me homeless in about 15 years when the house gets paid off then I build the accessory dwelling... if lifes way. I have friends and family that would live in the Methow Valley if they could afford to. When I first came to the valley my dwelling was a tipi. i was clueless as to what i was in for. I would have been quite comfortable in a tiny home and maybe never traded the twisp river swamp for the twisp River Cabin. the sky ranch log cabin was me thinking about a full size house for my family. i bought the cabin kit on ebay and had it engineered by larry zimmerlund with the full three side foundation. it is a nice house . I might have chosen a carpenter to rent it while finishing it with todays rental shortage rather than selling it cheap for someone else to finish. anyway, I plan to occupy this Twisp River Cabin and renovate so my son will have affordable housing in the methow valley.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by PAL »

I don't know anyone that has the bucks to buy a house in those that are in need of housing.
The people I know are poor. Some have to live in Omak, or motorhomes or worse, in order to be here. People that have the money may have to look elsewhere for available housing. There are some that are for sale but the market is slowing down from what I see.
The emergency housing is a great idea and is a faster solution. i'm not suggesting free. Most people want to pay their way, I find. Yes, the zoning needs to change to allow for well sharing and all the things you say.
With winter, people have pretty much settled in and are where they are, either here or gone.
I don't have that attitude that if people leave there is more room for me. I already have the roominess I need up Twisp River. It is alot calmer this year it seems. Upper Twisp River got really popular because of the snow and it was discovered. It didn't seem that way today when we were up there. Of course it was a Monday. Vehicle tracks showed that people were looking for Christmas trees. We didn't see a soul.
Tristan I know that house, across from us. They finished it. They kept us awake one night until 2 am, firing a semi auto weapon into what sounded like roofing material. We didn't call the law, as a neighbor went over with his weapon and told them to knock it off or the law would be called. They quit and have never done it again.
Off topic for sure.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by PAL »

Well, maybe it should be about available housing then. There is none available, period. The apartment units are full in Twisp and Winthrop and I think people have to make below a certain income level. A room once in awhile pops up, but according to Room One stats, the rental availability in the Valley is less than 1 percent. Another house does pop up occasionally at $2100/month. It is 3 bedrooms so people could possibly share that house, if the landlord is ok with that.
All for now.
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Re: Affordable Housing

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Not sure why I am dodging bullets. Maybe I am wrong about what affordable housing means. To me it means 1/3 of a household income. I guess a person working makes $20 hr or $3200 month. This would make $1000 month an affordable house. I built that log cabin shell on the engineered foundation for about $150000. A person with good credit can borrow $200000 at $1000 each month with is less than rent in our town. I am discussing affordable housing. Tell me what affordable housing is if my definition is incorrect. I could buy and build a legal dwelling on Johnson St for $200000 and own the land. This to me is $1000 each month for 30 years. Seems like people that have a "sky is falling" attitude have a difficult time making long term investments when all hell is about to break loose why bother? Well I don't think all hell is about to come to Twisp or the methow and am willing to think about long term monetary investments.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by mister_coffee »

No, none of that is unreasonable.

The reality is that there are a lot of moving parts and getting them all to move at the same time takes time and effort. Bluntly the issue is not that government is bad or dysfunctional, just that to solve the problem you need to get different levels of government to talk to each other and engage to solve this problem. And that's just for the land use and water issues that you'd have to solve before you can even start building.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by PAL »

OK, let's try to keep it to affordable housing and we are not talking about just one individual or individuals that are providing housing for themselves. We are talking about the conditions Valley wide.
The concern is, it is too late. By the time housing is built, the workers may throw in the towel. Jobs may not be as plentiful because businesses may have to shut down for lack of workers, etc. Things are maintaining here, barely. So yes indeedy, time will tell. Worker bees will go where the jobs are and maybe where there is housing in, where? some other state, town?
If housing could be provided quickly, then it could work.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by tristanbgilb »

howerton.jpg
It would require a professional engineer's stamp to ensure the hillside doesn't fail. I have done it before with a log cabin that I sold in the Twisp River Sky Ranch. I didn't make any money on this because I was in a hurry to move into town with my family and not suffer through construction. I bet its a beautiful finished log home now. It was designed to be a cabin but with an engineer and three concrete walls built into the hillside it is a full sized house... way out of my price range now.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by PAL »

The hillside house you are dreaming of would be a good thing in that it would be partially earth sheltered into the hillside like that. Doesn't have to be dark and dreary either. But it might requite alot of concrete which in these days can be expensive.
Or hey, rammed earth if they are permitted here. But concrete is more stable in my mind.
As far as last opportunity there are parcels around town still.
In time, something will come about there. Good luck, and I mean in a positive way.
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Re: Affordable Housing

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PAL wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:21 am
Back to affordable housing. Tristan, you've got yours and were mighty lucky to have smart family start that town and to have that property. Times have changed greatly from then and you've seen changes in the Valley. So we need to deal with now.
My point is that while you are all complaining about lack of affordable housing there is one sitting right on Johnson Street. Only a dream but I can see how it can be done. It maybe the last opportunity in Twisp Town Limits unless Hank comes through which is quite likely. I am wanting to invest my time and efforts in my Twisp River Parel only this deal has me salivating as a land and dwelling in my vision of possible things I can do. It just takes a little imagination to realize there is a lot of value for the average joe in a hillside that doesn't have to be overly expensive to build into ...
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Re: Affordable Housing

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I'm going to say it ad nauseum, look to the book, "Billionaire Wilderness" for the answers to those questions Alf. He did 5 yrs. of research on this, actually inserting himself into the ultra wealthy community. He was upfront about his project. It amounted to them giving money to the glamour organizations. And the local housing authority there and the Latino Community Center, was not in amongst the glamorous organizations that got a huge amount of dollars.
The main way they had gotten their money was hard work, mostly, and then they reached a certain point where most of their income was from investments over the years. Then they discovered Wyoming, that as one of the wealthy respondents said, it was like an offshore place to put your money, but it happened to be in the states.
We cannot rely on some wealthy person or 2, to provide the funds(well, maybe, they did Twispworks) It is up to the community and the towns, coming together to find a solution. Hank is a great example and he actually may have the funding but probably not all of it. I think many people would like to see this go through. And hopefully local carpenters and the gamut will be hired.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by PAL »

Sun Mtn. does provide some housing but it's not enough. Now if you turned Sun Mtn. into living space, what would you have? No work at the lodge because there would be living units, unless they only did part of it. The addition of the Gardner Bldg, really put pressure on to fill those rooms with guests. They built it when they could fill those rooms. But it kind of backfired starting say, about 6 yrs. ago.
Hank is a start. And the town thinks there is plenty of water...for now.
As far as socialism. I don't think having Medicare, health services, social security(because people don't seem to know how to save) and some other programs are socialism. That's a misused label.
There have to be some taxes, more on the wealthy, to pay their patriotic share. But take a look at a landline phone bill. Now there is some overtaxation, on the shady, slippery side, I would say.
Government regulation occurred when people were dumping waste and chems into the water supply, when smokestacks were emitting alot of pollutants, for example. In some areas of gov't there is too much regulation and others not enough perhaps. Needs to be sorted out. Good luck there, huh?
Back to affordable housing. Tristan, you've got yours and were mighty lucky to have smart family start that town and to have that property. Times have changed greatly from then and you've seen changes in the Valley. So we need to deal with now.
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Re: Affordable Housing

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Man lives in 100 sqft home and grows all his own food...

https://www.intheknow.com/post/meet-the ... -his-food/
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Re: Affordable Housing

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My ancestors helped build the town of Gilbert at the end of Twisp River Rd. It seems incredible to me people could survive in such an environment with such primitive means. If there came a time we needed an emergency village I always thought the fs campgrounds would make nice villages for tiny houses. Start developing war creek. There is a telephone line within 2 or 3 hundred yards of the campground. But its not really a state of emergency here. I see the cities boiling over at some point. I didn't study history much. Seems like there is a real push to socialism. Its a real struggle to solve real life problems and using big government and taxing seems to often cause problems as suggested concentrating poverty. People are suggesting homes are needed and I wonder how many homes need to be built on the lots allotted. The water issue seems to be slowing development. Hank is getting into housing. I bet he hits it right on the head of the nail. He is a straight shooter. I really haven't heard what his plan is if the land is annexed by Twisp.
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Re: Affordable Housing

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Sun Mountain might make nice condos. its a nice building.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by PAL »

Great concept of the Tough Shed. Probably would have to be beefed up for snow load here, don't you think?
Agree with you Tristan about the trailer park too.
But I know we are a tourist economy here in the Valley. A lot of the shops, especially in Winthrop vie for tourist dollars. I see alot of people that are not from here. I know people that cannot find housing. At Sun Mtn. some of the servers and others are driving over from Omak. These people probably don't have the $10,000 to $50,000 for a down payment for a house or land. I know people that don't. And while buying makes the most sense not everyone can or wants to. The Methow has close to a zero percent housing availability for rentals. That is not a healthy number.
Even Twisp in the summer has people exploring the town. The art galleries have a big draw. The Confluence is known as one of the best galleries East of the mountains.
It's true many locals do business in the Valley but it's those tourist dollars that the businesses have their eye on.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by tristanbgilb »

Tiny Houses are what I would like to see trailer parks go to. In private upscale RV Parks where people own their own lots they are called "Park Model Homes". Built with size restrictions, everything goes into making the home nice. This is what could be at the horseshoe trailer park if people were allowed to own and develop their lots. I was told a tenant just paid $50k for a double wide in the park. They have this expense plus rent for the lot and electricity and insurance. Its not cheap housing. I just wish they were so empowered to come together as a homeowner's association and buy the trailer park collectively so each person had a private lot. Perhaps too much power to people we want poor and beaten down? I am just saying its possible.
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Re: Affordable Housing

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Home Depot ‘Tuff Sheds’ Make For Affordable Two-Story Tiny Homes
You can personalize them and trick them out with all kinds of extras!

June 30, 2020 by Marie Rossiter | Last updated on 12/01/2021

Home is where the heart is — and the tiny-house craze proves size doesn’t matter when it comes to creating our homes. We’ve seen tiny homes you can buy on Amazon and even ones you can have 3D-printed. Now, we’ve found some out-of-the-box-thinking homeowners who are repurposing storage sheds purchased at Home Depot into their own tiny houses.

Tuff Shed, a builder who partners with Home Depot, offers sheds that make it easy, such as the two-story Sundance TR-1600 model (though it’s currently unavailable). It has standard 8-foot walls on the first floor, a full second floor, 36-inch stairs, an entry door with locks and boxed eaves on all walls. Customers can also order an optional front porch with a deck, windows, shutters and window boxes to make it truly look like a real house.


Tuff Shed
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Concerned about limited color options? Tuff Shed offers 30 colors to choose from in their collection, including various shades of white, blue, brown, gray and red. Roof materials come in five standard colors and three different styles: three-tab composition shingles (which are standard to the shed), upgraded dimensional shingles or a metal roof. Each one has a specific warranty to guarantee protection from winds and rain.

Prices for this potential tiny home start at a base price of $12,629 for a 16-foot-by-20-foot-by-21-foot shed (unpainted). They go up to $22,889 for an unpainted 18-foot-by-36-foot-by-21-foot, 6-inch shed. You can also purchase them painted at a higher price point. You can choose from 10 different sizes and then add on the extras as you see fit. Insulate them, add drywall, and bring in plumbing and electricity if you like!

The Smith Family’s Tuff Shed Home
It’s one thing to talk about making a shed into a home sweet home, but it’s another to see it all set up.

We found My Tuff Shed Home on Facebook, a page from a family who has been sharing their shed home life since 2018. How charming is this little house?


Beth and Barry Smith of Georgia made the move into their Tuff Shed tiny home after trying to build a tiny house on their own. When it came to the second project, the Smiths decided to get some help.

One day during a trip to Home Depot, the Smiths saw the TR-1600 and liked the look of it. They ordered one and hired builders and contractors to create their new tiny home. There were separate crews for shed construction, foundation pouring (an additional charge) and interior work.

What It’s Like Inside
We connected directly with the Smith family, who was generous enough to give us a virtual tour of their lovely home.

One the first floor, they went for an open concept. They have a nice, airy window in the kitchen area in front of the sink for some amazing views.
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Tucked into the kitchen is a cozy dining area perfect for up to four people. Then, the Smiths and guests can retire to the living area for games and conversation, if they’d like.


Beth and Barry Smith
The couple’s bedroom looks like the perfect private retreat for two. There’s the bed, complete with side tables and lamps. The room also includes windows, a ceiling fan, a dresser and even a nice seating area where they can relax.
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Barry and Beth Smith
The Smiths even have their own bathroom complete with a soaking tub! It looks like their own personal day spa.
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Barry and Beth Smith
But, how much did this all cost to pull together? After all, that truly is the bottom line, right?

“Our Tuff Shed shell was a bit over $20,000 including some upgrades,” Beth told us. “To finish it out, we did a lot of the work ourselves but hired out electrical and plumbing, HVAC, etc. All in we came in a bit over $60,000.”

According to Zillow, the average price of a home in the U.S. is $312,728. At about $60,000, the Smiths paid just a fraction of the average cost of a home. But did saving so much on their house mean they traded in the enjoyment of their previous home? They may have cut their budget, but Beth said the Smiths gained a lot more in their lifestyle than they lost in space.

“We still love the size, we love the ease of living here,” Beth said. “We still enjoy a generally uncluttered life. Having a small home with very little overhead has allowed us to pursue a simpler life and to walk away from ‘corporate,’ which was one of our goals.”

How cool! We love what they’ve done with the place.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by tristanbgilb »

I lived on St John in the US Virgin Islands when I was in my 20's and traveling around. Here was a place with a real tourist economy and housing difficulties. Here it is nice. There was a little too much traffic today in twisp and I wondered where everyone came from. I don't see us as this tourist economy with a housing crisis at all. I am not even familiar with a bunch of empty vacation homes. This is not what I see. Renting isn't a longterm lifestyle that I have ever lived. My dad bought the land he raised me on. I am buying the land I am raising my children on. I was not raised in this cycle of poverty. I have been taught that land ownership is everything. My ancestors came across the country to homestead and have owned land from homesteading. Renting is like having a king and really sucks the power out of a guy. I am just thinking about st john because land came up for sale on the island and I was thinking about buying it. it amazes me people sell their land. its like they don't love their children and want them to be slaves rather than landlords. I have sacrificed much to be a landlord. People think I am insanely cheap because I go to the cove for food. I think my clothes must come from the senior center thrift store. I don't drink alcohol. I don't eat meat. I prefer milk and brown rice for my diet. My expenses are cannabis medicine and real estate and kids.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by PAL »

Alf, the way I read it, Tristan took care of the housing shortage for himself. Not others. One person can't. That is why there is a coalition that is working on this, see MVN. A little late perhaps or the Valley was asleep at the wheel.
Once the Valley turned to tourism, as early as the 80's, it would have been nice to start thinking about a possible housing shortage that might occur. But then, it would not have been a good return, as units might have sat empty. I usually could fine housing in the early 90's, no problem. But Covid seemed to bring it to the forefront and to our attention.
Again, I suggest reading Billionaire Wilderness. It's about Jackson Hole and the tax shelters for the ultra wealthy in Wyoming. We are not there and don't think we will be. We don't have the elevation that the Tetons have. Thank goodness in a way.
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Re: Affordable Housing

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Snohomish County proposes sales tax hike without a vote to fund affordable housing
Snohomish County has the highest tax rate in Washington at 10.5%. But taxpayers may not have a say in this proposal.

Author: Eric Wilkinson
Published: 8:14 PM PST December 2, 2021


LYNNWOOD, Wash — With prices going up and inflation on the rise, Snohomish County is proposing a sales tax increase, even though it already has the highest sales tax in the state.

"Nobody likes to raise taxes," said Snohomish County spokesperson Kent Patton. "But unfortunately, we have one tool at our disposal at the county level."


Patton said the money would raise $117 million over the next five years to build 300 new units of affordable housing, more than doubling what's already in the works.

He said it's desperately needed.

"In Snohomish County, to afford a 2-bedroom apartment, a person making minimum wage has to work three full-time jobs. People are struggling to pay for housing. Ask any teacher or construction worker, or the person who delivers your food. This is a crisis."


King County's sales tax sits at 10.3% and the same is true in Pierce County.

Snohomish County has the highest in Washington at 10.5%.

An additional tenth of a percent would push Lynnwood, Mukilteo, Mill Creek and the Snohomish County section of Bothell to 10.6%.

The rate is so high, the City of Lynnwood sent a letter to the council stating, "We oppose any increase in the sales tax rate in our county. We appeal to you and to our state legislature to find other forms of revenue to address the pressing issues of housing and mental health."

Angering opponents is the likelihood that the increase could happen without the consent of the people, and there may not be much that taxpayers can do about it.

"They're going to get hit with a sales tax increase without really having any say in it," said Snohomish County Councilmember Nate Nehring.

Last year, state legislators passed a law giving cities and counties the authority to raise sales taxes for housing without a vote of the people.

"Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should," said Nehring, of Arlington. "It most directly impacts those who are poor and in the middle class. We should be listening to those folks who say they don't want this. That's why I think it's so important this go to a public vote, so they can have their voices heard."


The last sales tax increase in Snohomish County was three years ago. It was a one-tenth of a percent hike to fund emergency communications.

Patton said if this increase is passed, it would only cost the average person about $27 per year.

When asked why not put it to a vote, Patton said, "The crisis is now. We want to act now and we can't afford to have a thousand hearings and repeat the same things we've been doing for years. We believe the need is so great we have to do something now."

The Snohomish County Council is expected to vote on the increase in two weeks.

If approved, the tax hike will take effect in April.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by tristanbgilb »

I just did. If I needed a house I would buy the cliff and build one. End of housing shortage.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by tristanbgilb »

alfrandell wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:19 am i am just baffled by this last post tristan.
are you suggesting that there is no housing shortage in the valley because you have found a 100k property that you can afford to buy?
I am suggesting if I had a housing shortage I could solve the problem and build an affordable dwelling then my housing shortage would be solved.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by tristanbgilb »

I am somewhat skilled in real estate and have both failed and succeeded in transactions and investments. I would buy the cliff next to the community center if I was looking for a dwelling in the Methow Valley. This cliff is available for just over $100k on a contract with about $25k down at 5%. I would build on the johnson street lot first next to filers building. I would have an engineer draw up a three sided foundation to hold up the cliff and be the back walls of the structure. I would have half this building be office and the other half dwelling. I am thinking about 24ft by 36ft by 24 ft by 10 ft tall and 8 in thick concrete with appropriate rebar. the money would be in the foundation but it would be at the bottom of the cliff on ground level. this lot could be developed into dwelling commercial for not too much money if you think small rather than grandiose.
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