Affordable Housing

[PAL]

Alf, the way I read it, Tristan took care of the housing shortage for himself. Not others. One person can't. That is why there is a coalition that is working on this, see MVN. A little late perhaps or the Valley was asleep at the wheel.
Once the Valley turned to tourism, as early as the 80's, it would have been nice to start thinking about a possible housing shortage that might occur. But then, it would not have been a good return, as units might have sat empty. I usually could fine housing in the early 90's, no problem. But Covid seemed to bring it to the forefront and to our attention.
Again, I suggest reading Billionaire Wilderness. It's about Jackson Hole and the tax shelters for the ultra wealthy in Wyoming. We are not there and don't think we will be. We don't have the elevation that the Tetons have. Thank goodness in a way.

[pasayten]

Snohomish County proposes sales tax hike without a vote to fund affordable housing
Snohomish County has the highest tax rate in Washington at 10.5%. But taxpayers may not have a say in this proposal.

Author: Eric Wilkinson
Published: 8:14 PM PST December 2, 2021


LYNNWOOD, Wash — With prices going up and inflation on the rise, Snohomish County is proposing a sales tax increase, even though it already has the highest sales tax in the state.

"Nobody likes to raise taxes," said Snohomish County spokesperson Kent Patton. "But unfortunately, we have one tool at our disposal at the county level."


Patton said the money would raise $117 million over the next five years to build 300 new units of affordable housing, more than doubling what's already in the works.

He said it's desperately needed.

"In Snohomish County, to afford a 2-bedroom apartment, a person making minimum wage has to work three full-time jobs. People are struggling to pay for housing. Ask any teacher or construction worker, or the person who delivers your food. This is a crisis."


King County's sales tax sits at 10.3% and the same is true in Pierce County.

Snohomish County has the highest in Washington at 10.5%.

An additional tenth of a percent would push Lynnwood, Mukilteo, Mill Creek and the Snohomish County section of Bothell to 10.6%.

The rate is so high, the City of Lynnwood sent a letter to the council stating, "We oppose any increase in the sales tax rate in our county. We appeal to you and to our state legislature to find other forms of revenue to address the pressing issues of housing and mental health."

Angering opponents is the likelihood that the increase could happen without the consent of the people, and there may not be much that taxpayers can do about it.

"They're going to get hit with a sales tax increase without really having any say in it," said Snohomish County Councilmember Nate Nehring.

Last year, state legislators passed a law giving cities and counties the authority to raise sales taxes for housing without a vote of the people.

"Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should," said Nehring, of Arlington. "It most directly impacts those who are poor and in the middle class. We should be listening to those folks who say they don't want this. That's why I think it's so important this go to a public vote, so they can have their voices heard."


The last sales tax increase in Snohomish County was three years ago. It was a one-tenth of a percent hike to fund emergency communications.

Patton said if this increase is passed, it would only cost the average person about $27 per year.

When asked why not put it to a vote, Patton said, "The crisis is now. We want to act now and we can't afford to have a thousand hearings and repeat the same things we've been doing for years. We believe the need is so great we have to do something now."

The Snohomish County Council is expected to vote on the increase in two weeks.

If approved, the tax hike will take effect in April.

[tristanbgilb]

I just did. If I needed a house I would buy the cliff and build one. End of housing shortage.

[tristanbgilb]

i am just baffled by this last post tristan.
are you suggesting that there is no housing shortage in the valley because you have found a 100k property that you can afford to buy?

I am suggesting if I had a housing shortage I could solve the problem and build an affordable dwelling then my housing shortage would be solved.

[tristanbgilb]

I am somewhat skilled in real estate and have both failed and succeeded in transactions and investments. I would buy the cliff next to the community center if I was looking for a dwelling in the Methow Valley. This cliff is available for just over $100k on a contract with about $25k down at 5%. I would build on the johnson street lot first next to filers building. I would have an engineer draw up a three sided foundation to hold up the cliff and be the back walls of the structure. I would have half this building be office and the other half dwelling. I am thinking about 24ft by 36ft by 24 ft by 10 ft tall and 8 in thick concrete with appropriate rebar. the money would be in the foundation but it would be at the bottom of the cliff on ground level. this lot could be developed into dwelling commercial for not too much money if you think small rather than grandiose.

[tristanbgilb]

And who, living in a trailer, could afford a $100,000 dollar trailer pad?

They pay enough in rent to almost cover it on a 30 year fixed term loan. Lets say they pay $600 month rent for the lot. $100k at 3% is less money per month and someday there is no payment at all owned free and clear... and the owner is empowered and proud of their home.

[Fun CH]

A housing crisis to me looks like the trailer park in Twisp more than all this "affordable housing" we supposedly need here. This is low cost housing at the trailer park. Is this what we want more of? I think this california trust in charge of the trailer park should be bought out by a housing association and the lots in the park owned by the tenants. I went to the taxsifter and saw that this park was purchased for 1.7 million in 2017. By inflation standards lets just say its worth 4 million now. I looked over the map and counted roughly 40 trailers. that would make each lot roughly worth $100k with all the amenities already installed. I would rather empower tenants to become land owners than create more cheap housing to make outside interests rich while creating this blight our valley.

have you seen the affordable housing project in Twisp and Mazama? Those are nice places sold to working families.

And who, living in a trailer, could afford a $100,000 dollar trailer pad?

When we say affordable housing, no one is talking about a homeless shelter.

But I do agree with you about that hard work ethic here. Everyone has to do their share of carrying the water for the community.

Those that are well employed elseware, making wages that are next to impossible to make here for the average person, and own a vacant 2nd home can certainly afford an additional 1 to 2% tax on the value of their property.

Just asking them to carry some of that water for the benefit the community.

Glad you joined the discussion.

[pasayten]

Motel converted to housing...

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/l ... -employees

[PAL]

I am starting to read the book, "Billionaire Wilderness" about what has happened to Jackson Hole as an example. It is very in depth, starting with interviews with the ultra wealthy. This guy researched this for 5 yrs. It is quite revealing.
The reason we want affordable housing is that there are people that are living in tents, motorhomes, here and they are the workers breaking their backs for our tourist economy. That is the course the Methow has taken, so that our tourist economy doesn't go away, housing needs to be built.
I know there is a shortage as I have been looking for housing for a friend, and there is next to nothing, that is affordable anyway. A 3 bedroom house on the other BB was asking $2100/month. I'm betting it is quite a nice house and at that price they must figure people will not wreck it. Of course, 3 or more sharing it would make it more affordable.
Just my speculation.

[tristanbgilb]

A housing crisis to me looks like the trailer park in Twisp more than all this "affordable housing" we supposedly need here. This is low cost housing at the trailer park. Is this what we want more of? I think this california trust in charge of the trailer park should be bought out by a housing association and the lots in the park owned by the tenants. I went to the taxsifter and saw that this park was purchased for 1.7 million in 2017. By inflation standards lets just say its worth 4 million now. I looked over the map and counted roughly 40 trailers. that would make each lot roughly worth $100k with all the amenities already installed. I would rather empower tenants to become land owners than create more cheap housing to make outside interests rich while creating this blight our valley.

[pasayten]

Was talking about this issue with a friend who lived in Aspen back in the day when they addressed similar problems...

"Difficult issue - most workers in Aspen lived down-valley, at least out of town"

"First Low cost housing units filled up with ski bums, after that one had to prove employment with a Chamber of Commerce member business in town."

That is a novel concept...

[tristanbgilb]

I could build myself an affordable dwelling in Twisp today with the resources I have today with land to play with. there are places in the cities for people that don't want to carry their weight in society. the methow valley requires high standards integrity and hard work to be accepted. if you want a free place to stay there are shelters in other places. here i am looking for a safe and comfortable place to raise a family. i moved here to get away from this druggy street trash that has taken over our cities. why would we want to invite it here.?

[Fun CH]

I don't see the housing crisis you are referring to people. I am middle class with two methow valley dwellings and could almost afford to build another.

Could you afford to move here now given the resources you had when you moved here, what was it 20-30 years ago?

I couldn't.

We built our home here (1984-85) after living for 7 years in a 12×48 foot used trailer. Later we moved that trailer to a $50 a month rental lot located in an apple orchard where we lived amongst a variety of chemical sprays. (the owner of that Orchard developed a nasty cancer).

When we moved to the Valley it was affordable to be able to escape that life.

Twenty five years ago you could buy a 2 acre lot in Pine Forest for $10,000.

The last two 2 acres lots in that development sold for around $250,000.

If you want to welcome people willing to do hard physical work in the Methow and to replace those of us who are retiring, housing needs to be affordable and available.

Neither of those is occuring now.

A vacant home tax could help fund homes for those who are working hard, saving but still could never afford to live here given the current situation.

[tristanbgilb]

I don't see the housing crisis you are referring to people. I am middle class with two methow valley dwellings and could almost afford to build another. "Money talks and bull*** walks"; This guy kept telling me this when he picked me up broke and destitute hitchhiking i-5 to olympia from a grateful dead show. get off your asses and get some land and build a house. the government is not going to save you and why do i owe you a place to live?

[Fun CH]

Wouldn't it be great if they would post and just say they will not accept anymore.

they did that once asking that we not post anything political, and people kept posting political stuff anyway.

I got caught up in a political discussion when a part-time Valley resident from Bellevue (I think) with a second home in Twisp posted about reviving the already defeated formation of a Methow Recreational District.

[That conversation, where I pushed back hard against that new tax and the ability to take our property for recreational use, ultimately led to me getting banned from that forum.]

That guy had previously written a letter to the editor to MVN suggesting that a recreational District would help increase property values. That happened anyway and has helped exacerbate our affordable housing crisis.

Wonder how that Bellevue guy would feel about increasing the taxes on his second home in Twisp in order to fund affordable housing?

The increase in property values is a double-edged sword.

On the positive side those increased property values means that our long time working class valley residents will be able to sell their homes when they can longer take care of themselves and be able to afford a decent assisted living or nursing care facility.

[PAL]

Here are the rules from Methownet BB

As host of the bulletin board the Methownet.com staff has the right to remove posts. Here are some of the reasons we might do so:
1) posts with language or images of a slanderous, libelous, mean or rude nature,
2) spammers,
3) bumping your post to the top, or
4) posts which are commercial in nature.
5) Washington State law requires that private sales and transfers of firearms (those that do not involve a federally licensed dealer as a party to the transaction) be completed through a licensed dealer.

Users may be banned for:
1) trolling,
2) mean behavior, or
3) other stuff.

Any personal opinion or open discussion posts are additionally subject to the following rules:
1) Posters must include their real names on every opinion post
2) Offsite links are not allowed
3) You must share your opinion in your own words and keep it civil.

So there taking the housing post is arbitrary and up to whoever is doing the monitoring. And at this point it's a back and forth between them and the poster of the post!

Help! I didn't mean to post twice. How do I delete the post. (Update: I fixed it... pasayten)

[PAL]

They obviously don't want it on, thinking it will do more harm than good, I guess. Oh and it could become contentious.
Wouldn't it be great if they would post and just say they will not accept anymore. Once again, a private company and they can do what they want.

[pasayten]

What the heck???? Poof... The thread on methownet is GONE again???

[pasayten]

Note... I will keep adding new methownet replies to this thread...

TRanch25 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:47 pm

I hope you don't catch any flak as this is an important issue in our valley. I think conversations like this get deleted when it becomes belligerent, rude and filled with false information.
That said, I am hopeful for some good constructive dialogue! I think Steve, your idea is going in the right direction. The possibility of more taxes makes me nervous but with the right perimeters in place, might be a good solution.
Money talks as they say.
Bethann McKittrick

[PAL]

It's baaack again!

[PAL]

It's gone again!
Thanks Chris for this link. Will look forward to reading it.
We get the noise too sometimes, when the city dwellers come to Sky Ranch. The sound travels across the river surprisingly well.
Yes, love the sound of the flapping of bird wings.

[Fun CH]

Before Andy mentioned it, I had not considered a vacant home tax. So I looked it up.

The Bloomberg article below states that tax doesnt help but that article looks at the issue thinking that taxing vacant homes an additional 1% of property value will force rentals or sales of those vacant homes.

Instead just make sure that additional tax Revenue goes toward building affordable housing and not added to the general fund.

I will say this after having lived in Pine Forest for almost 15 years, Vacant home owners make good neighbors. I did notice that when the city folk were here, they talk very loudly as if they need to speak over the city noises that is their normal existence.

It takes them awhile I guess to realize that you can hear a gentle breeze in the Aspen trees and the flapping of bird wings around here if you seek the calm quiet.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... -are-taxed

"Taxing Rich Peoples' Empty Homes Isn't Helping the Housing Crisis"

"Economists say levies on vacant homes are largely political theatre, and policymakers need to tackle other factors such as supply-demand imbalance."

[pasayten]

McDonkey » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:35 pm

Not sure why this went away, but I'm glad it's back.
There are a lot of ideas floating around. Your idea is one that's been mentioned in the various housing study groups/ad hoc think tanks working on the issue, but it has some structural issues related to the state constitution that would make it problematic. Taxing unoccupied homes has however been implemented in other communities with similar issues.
Check out the Methow housing perseverance page on Facebook for other like minded folks and ideas
Thanks for the constructive input.
Andy McConkey

[pasayten]

Reapward » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:50 pm

And Dave Schultz's property was for sale by Do It. The old orchard but zoning?
Pearl Cherrington

[pasayten]

SherpaDave » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:00 pm

The old mill land just south and across the bridge from Hanks in Twisp looks like great high density property. And it is walking distance to almost everything. There is even some utilities already in place. Drive by and you see fire hydrants and such out in the flats. Some nice apartment buildings like Cedarwood Apts in Winthrop and small lot, reasonable size homes would make a nice residential area. Would need some kind of HOA or such restricting overnight rentals or part-time residency. I don't know how this is achieved. Just a thought.