Thanks WSDOT and Twisp for making HWY20 Safer

[Fun CH]

I trust the WSDOT knows what they're doing.

Professional truckers were consulted many years ago and determined these structures that enhance pedestrian safety do not seem to be problem for them.

"Truckers can co-exist with pedestrians. Wider sidewalks and pedestrian comer bulbs do not pose a problem. However, predictability is of key importance to truck
drivers as their vehicles are large and hard to stop and maneuver. All-waycrosswalks at intersections would provide greater certainty and safety in making turns at intersections by designating traffic flow for either vehicles or pedestrians."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... zKCjM36KJx

When I moved to Okanogan County 42 years ago working on a cattle ranch and hauled cattle and hay, the biggest problem for me was the poor brakes in that old truck. But hey, you know what they say about opinions..lol

[Italian_Helicoptor]

The new intersection feature I'm referring to is the turn into the Hanks shopping center where concrete dividers have been placed.

Clearly this was placed for safety reasons and a quick check of the research for these types of dividers do in fact favor the notion that they make crossing for pedestrians a lot safer.

That location was also a place where opposing traffic would sometimes cut the corner to make the turn into the shopping center to save 5 seconds of time. That is no longer possible, clearly another safety feature.

For those that fear they're going to crash into the concrete dividers, just stop driving impaired and slow back down to "Methow time".

For those that fear that the plantings will obstruct traffic sight lines, same advice as above. No way are there going to be giant hedges grown there that block sight lines.

The new artistic metal signs entering Twisp also serve a safety function. They remind me that the speed limit has just changed.


I know, change is hard for some to deal with, however increasing public health and safety does cost money but is always money well spent.

So Bravo City and State planners.

This is the dumbest thing ever, as a local of 40 years in twisp is intersection is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen...I drive semis and large trailers, this makes navigating the road ways and deliveries difficult. Oh and how about when the new state plow drivers don't see it and hit it...lol just dumb.

[PAL]

Regarding the locked post. Well, the discussion was getting old, but Katie Havens came on and said some really good things and that people should get involved in their local government. I have always thought to myself that the parking lot at Hank's is one of the most dangerous I have been in. Nothing against Hank at all.
Yes, Chris, Soo Ing wants what is best for the town, as does the council. But some people do not get a response. I emailed her a question and I never heard back from her. At the fire meetings she says she is there for us and to email and she will respond. Of course she is super busy, so how can she respond? And I don't live in Twisp, but sure do use it alot.
I asked on the other BB, why it hasn't been finished and I said I think I know the answer is because of all the fire traffic, etc. Makes sense. When it is finished I may have a different opinion. The plants are an important factor and the whole project points to an important factor. If you're going to do something, do it right. See my point?
I guess that is what I am having a hard time accepting. It needs to be finished! And in time it will be, I hope.

[Fun CH]

I agree, that intersection has always been chaotic. The dividers hopefully will have the effect of slowing people down and focus on their responsibilities as a driver of a potentially hazardous vehicle.

The MNBB locked the thread that addresses this issue. It seemed to be turning towards a political action campaign with a lot of negative hearsay directed towards the mayor.

[anonloser]

That entrance to Hanks was chaotic even before the island imo. Especially during the peak tourist seasons. People routinely park in the middle of the driving lane because they closed off that drive through towards Ulrichs to add more parking spots and it stops being double rowed parking at a confusing spot. People park large trailers in front of the sign, zoom from gas station to do-it or vice versa, fly through the entrance to the Ulrichs spots without looking, etc.

Just my opinion, but it seems they'd be better off just closing that driveway and converting it to more back row parking. Two straight lanes of double sided parking. There's already 3 other entrances to that parking lot on either side of the island. Close the island drive way and leave a walk way for pedestrians. People who are driving can come in either end. Right now there's essentially a 4 way intersection in the middle of a parking lot right after a 4 way intersection on the highway. It was fine 20 years ago, but things just get busier here now and that parking lot is not designed well for heavier traffic flow.

Just my 2 cents.

[Fun CH]

I happen to know that many business owners were contacted regarding this divider by some individuals and they sent a letter to Soo Ing, opposing the divider. They were ignored by both her and the council. She likes to make the big splash. She will move on to a higher office. This is a stepping stone.
Sure there is some emotions but there are also the facts. And I looked at those plants today. They are not happy.
For pedestrian safety, some flashing lights could have been installed and come on when the person is crossing. Never take it for granted that cars will stop for pedestrians, anywhere, even if there are warnings and crossings. I think I am sensitive because I have seen 2 pedestrians get hit by cars, in another town. It wasn't pretty. So I am all for ped safety but I still think this divider creates more confusion.
I can see this divider in larger towns.

Its already been reported that it appears these are dividers are set up to receive lights. Is the issue of the plants really an important factor here?

Generally when we take a position based upon an emotional reaction or self interest desire, we've created a brick wall in minds where new factual (objective) information is hard to process.

We look for rationalizations to justify our positions that are now set in stone no matter how biased or illogical those justifications are.

It's better to let the facts speak for themselves. In this case experts in the field of traffic safety have determined that traffic dividers are safer for pedestrians.

Why is that so hard to accept?

(Another example, Why is it so hard to accept for some that a vaccination will help with Public Heath and Safety during a pandemic? )

Do you really believe this has something to do with the mayor's ambitions? Do you know that it is a fact that she approved the dividers based on her ambitions or is that a biased rationalization that you've created to support your position.



Fortunately safety decisions aren't always made by those who object to change.

Unfortunately I've seen public safety concerns set aside to satisfy commercial interests.

Side note example where commercial interest overrides Public Safety concerns would be the Forest Service decision on the Silver Star snow park location.

Fortunately the WSDOT closes the road to that Snowpark as conditions become unsafe for the general public despite the FS desire to satisfy commercial interests in our North Cascade Mountains.

[PAL]

I happen to know that many business owners were contacted regarding this divider by some individuals and they sent a letter to Soo Ing, opposing the divider. They were ignored by both her and the council. She likes to make the big splash. She will move on to a higher office. This is a stepping stone.
Sure there is some emotions but there are also the facts. And I looked at those plants today. They are not happy.
For pedestrian safety, some flashing lights could have been installed and come on when the person is crossing. Never take it for granted that cars will stop for pedestrians, anywhere, even if there are warnings and crossings. I think I am sensitive because I have seen 2 pedestrians get hit by cars, in another town. It wasn't pretty. So I am all for ped safety but I still think this divider creates more confusion.
I can see this divider in larger towns.

[Fun CH]

A of lot of the discussion at the MN BB concerning this issue is based upon emotion, Peoples Natural resistance to change, and it how it affects them as drivers of a vehicle.

Sometimes you have to disregard your self-interest and consider the safety of others.

In this case its the safety of pedestrians, including children, who have to cross that busy section of highway in order to shop that is the consideration.

I've crossed that intersection before the crosswalk was put in, and have used the old crosswalk. Drivers don't always see pedestrians waiting to cross and many just speed on by anyway (which is a violation of law and puts others at risk)

Here are the facts.

"A pedestrian refuge island can improve safety and comfort by providing pedestrians with the option of waiting in the median area before beginning the next stage of the crossing. FEATURES: Median can enhance visibility of the crossing and reduce speed of approaching vehicles."


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... LAJ4nzsY5E

It takes a lot of personal work to understand that your self-interest isn't always in the best interest of others health and safety.

[PAL]

Yeah, Tristan, I admit I have not crossed there. There is alot going on, and it's confusing for me, as a pedestrian even. As with any pedestrian crossing, I act as if all cars will kill me and I never assume they will stop or see me. I am very cautious, as I just about got it crossing one day over to the PO on Glover St. from in front of the Cove.
Once it's spruced up and finished I may feel differently about it.
Pearl
PS-the Nuclear thing is wild.

[tristanbgilb]

I wonder how many of the complainers have really crossed the highway 20 to www.hanks.market as a pedestrian. I live nearby and am so happy they are building a crossing. I have used it successfully without getting run over and I am teaching my children to use it also. Its obvious its not complete yet. There needs to be paint on the road and there are some foundations for lights. I am curious about what the lights will be. And also a covered bus stop for the Trango. I love mayor soo for getting this for our town. I hope she will get us sidewalks for the entire Trango Route through our town. Maybe someday I will let her know I would like that.

[Fun CH]

. You don't know if Ann was in a hurry.

Here's the quote that led to that conclusion.

"When coming from the south to the curbs driving a large 1 ton service truck, i was looking to turn into the hanks lot using the wide entrance right before the curbs. There was a car and a semi truck trying to come out of the access, completely blocking the access."

Put turn signal on. Come to stop and wait for the outgoing traffic to clear the roadway. Extra 5 to 20 seconds if its safe to make the Left hand turn.

[PAL]

That's right, that's all we can do. You don't know if Ann was in a hurry. Well, we all tend to be. But I have slowed considerably and that is the intention. Now if we could just get people to slow down other places! There are worse things, but people feel that they didn't get a say. Not that it would have mattered. State money, take it if you can get it.
Pearl

[Fun CH]

All I can say is that there are something like 4 or five entrances to the shopping center, pick one best suits a persons particular needs.

Sounds like the person in the quote was in a hurry. The divider is designed to slow people down and focus on what they are doing.

[PAL]

Chris, I am reprinting, from the other BB, what I think is a good assessment of the highway 20 divider. I agree with her 1st paragraph, as it has happened to me several times. And of course, even though I have the right-away in this situation, I always stop for these clueless people.

"The Twisp curbs are a really bad design.
The middle curb opening is not as wide as the street opening coming out of Hank's next to their sign. So, if a car is in the lot looking to use the middle cut to turn north, they have to position their vehicle on the north side of that access point, so they can get to the cut in the middle of the islands. That completely blocks anyone coming from the south to turn into Hanks. The curb opening is basically one vehicle wide, unlike the parking lot opening which is 2+ vehicles wide.

Prior to the curbs, vehicles coming out of that wide access point would position on the south side of the opening allowing lots of room for a vehicle to come in on their north side. Proper driving 101.

When coming from the south to the curbs driving a large 1 ton service truck, i was looking to turn into the hanks lot using the wide entrance right before the curbs. There was a car and a semi truck trying to come out of the access, completely blocking the access. I went past that first wide access, passed the middle cut afraid of running over curbs, ended up using the Texaco entrance.

I wonder what impact that additional traffic turning in at the Texaco is having ....when it would have been using the 2 entrances south of the Hanks sign.

I agree with others with concerns about snow removal of the crosswalk.
Before, snow plows clear the full width of the road. Now? Who will stand in the middle of the highway and hand shovel for the pedestrian crosswalk....

AND the car crossover!!!! State snow plows arent going to plow that 4 foot by 10 foot strip between the 2 curb islands! Will a town employee be responsible for clearing that space? Hand shove or using the little sidewalk snowblower? Well, how safe is that to have a person hand shoveling or the snowblower out in the street in an active (very poorly designed in my not.an.expert.opinion) intersection where vehicles will be trying to gun it over the snow burm....

Regarding pedestrian crossings at the site-
The previous road design had crosswalk markings and hand flag stations on both sides. The current installation has....wait for it....a crosswalk with hand flag stations! And now with the added risk of distracted drivers trying to navigate the curbs and snow burms.

I see concrete bases that look like for lights for the bus stop, dont see any infrastructure for PedHeads on both sides of the road and the required stop lights for a ped crossing. I definitely missed that planning commission meeting."

Ann Wagstaff

I do agree with one thing you say and that is people do need to slow down and be very careful at this divider. I would like to see them finish this project and neaten it up a bit. The paving doesn't look quite right.
Pearl

[Fun CH]

The new intersection feature I'm referring to is the turn into the Hanks shopping center where concrete dividers have been placed.

Clearly this was placed for safety reasons and a quick check of the research for these types of dividers do in fact favor the notion that they make crossing for pedestrians a lot safer.

That location was also a place where opposing traffic would sometimes cut the corner to make the turn into the shopping center to save 5 seconds of time. That is no longer possible, clearly another safety feature.

For those that fear they're going to crash into the concrete dividers, just stop driving impaired and slow back down to "Methow time".

For those that fear that the plantings will obstruct traffic sight lines, same advice as above. No way are there going to be giant hedges grown there that block sight lines.

The new artistic metal signs entering Twisp also serve a safety function. They remind me that the speed limit has just changed.


I know, change is hard for some to deal with, however increasing public health and safety does cost money but is always money well spent.

So Bravo City and State planners.